Can somebody tell me what I am doing wrong? I have just ruined 18 painted minis by spraying them with a matt varnish. I can't tell whether I have just been heavy handed (although I thought I was being sparing) with the spray, or whether I shouldn't have left them outside for 10 mins before bringing them back inside. The minis were painted with a mixture of Citadel and Vallejo paints, gloss varnished with Citadel 'paint on' varnish, then, when dry, sprayed with Citadel Purity Seal, or whatever they call it now. I really would appreciate some feedback on this, as I am not the fastest painter on the planet (well, not this planet) and this represents a real waste of time, especially as I was hoping to post pictures this weekend to show I was still alive! The only consolation I can gain from this at the moment is that hopefully I'll make a better job of them next time round!
I need the minis to be fairly well protected from the constant handling of gameplay, and I have found that the matt spray on its own isn't sufficient. So, could some of you more experienced modellers out there lend me a hand with some suggestions? Thanks in anticipation.
By the way, the minis have already had a bath in acetone- some things have to be done straight away!
For protection I coat the the painted figure with Future Floor Finish; and when dry, I spray a couple of light coats of Testors flat finish to knock-down the gloss.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the help, Jay. I had thought about Testors Dullcote, I know quite a few people use it, but wasn't sure if it would do the job on its own. Anyhow, very helpful, thanks!
DeleteWhat's actually happened to the miniatures? Sometimes the varnish can cause frosting on the miniature, which I think can be if it's too cold outside, or with an old can. I've also had a friend were his paintjob went all crinkly after the varnish was applied, though this could be due to not fully washing the resin mould release off.
ReplyDeleteHi Mecha. the minis have become 'frosted' and all the detail obscured. I have subsequently read on the net that humid conditions can affect the varnish, and as it was raining outside when I sprayed them (I was under cover though!) maybe this had something to do with it. I'm still inclined to try a different varnish however. Testors Dullcote is tricky to get hold of here in the UK, so I was wondering about the Vallejo paint on varnish which is readily available. Anyone out there used it? Thanks for getting back, by the way, Mecha!
DeleteYeah it'll be the humidity that'll have caused it probably. I've used the Vallejo brush on varnish, as frankly my painting speed is so slow there's no point investing in a can. I find it's pretty good, certainly not had any problems with it.
DeleteThanks very much Mecha-I really appreciate the advice that you and Brian from Lead Legion have provided. It never ceases to amaze me how supportive our blogging community can be, and am grateful for it. Thanks once again.....and I think I will try the Vallejo paint on matt varnish.
DeleteHi Gunrunner.
ReplyDeleteIt will have been the humidity combined with the drop in ambient temperature from the rain. A similar effect is caused when the can or the air between the nozzle and the miniis too cold. However, holding the can too close can cause similar problems as well. There's a knack to using Spray Varnish that you'll soon pick up.
Dullcoate is said to be the best in the market. HOWEVER, it smells absolutely foul and HAS to be used outside because the fumes are fairly dangerous. It smells vaguely of petroleum or diesil. It also has the unfortunate side effect of completely ruining the effect of metal paints. It's a little too good at taking away shine in that respect. If you're going to use Dullcoate, don't paint ANYTHING metal on the miniature until after you've Varnished the rest of the miniature with the Dullcoate.
I personally use Army Painter Ant-Shine Matt varnish. So long as you only apply one or two thin spray on coats of this, you don't have to worry about swords, armour and the like going dull. Also, the fumes are far less offensive. So much so that I use the can indoors during the winter with a window open.
One tip to reduce frosting in colder weather: place the spray-can in a cup of warm (body-temperature) water for a minute or so before spraying. It heat's up the varnish so that there is less risk of the varnish particles drying in the air before it reaches the miniature. Particles drying in transit because of cold temperatures is one of the leading causes of frosting.
Don't let this experience put you off. I lost the odd batch as well at first. It's not a complete loss, you just need to repaint them. There's usually no need to strip them first for repainting after frosting.
One last thing: ALWAYS spray a test figure first. Let it dry throughly and inspect for frosting before you start spraying anything else. Don't forget to put the can back in the lukewarm water while you wait to see the results. And shake the can again after every few seconds of spraying.
Hey Brian, Thanks very much for the comprehensive answer. I feel like a teenager now, especially as most people seem to be aware of how this problem occurs! There seems to be plenty of info on the net if only I'd been bright enough to look there first! Still, I'm really grateful for the advice, and will certainly try a test first- 18 minis is a lot of re-painting when I don't seem to have enough time anyway! Thanks for taking the time to reply. Best wishes.
DeleteYour welcome Gunrunner. Don't let this experience put you off spray-varnish. It's a great time-saver.
DeleteI have used the Vallejo matt varnish. In fact I used it for about 4 years during instead of spraying models I painted them all individually with a couple of coats. You never get frosting but it takes some time to paint it on but with a big brush you could do a 15mm model in seconds with no risk. I have also suffered frosting with spray before but normally if I have got a little too heavy handed with it, so that the models are "running" with wet spray. I now only ever do a light spray from a distance and then come back again in 20mins to do another and I use the Citadel and Testors.
ReplyDeleteI am not so sure about humidity and rain. I spray at midnight in the winter (outside), during the height of summer and during rain (under shelter) and I can't say that the weather (at least in the SE of the UK) has impacted the result. The frosting I got was on a fine fresh May day. I personally think that humidity could impact spraying if you were spraying a panel of a car or something large, where a consistant good flow is important but with a light dusting of varnish you could get away with it in most UK weather - I even sprayed varnished when there was snow on the ground this year.
So my advice:
1/ Shake can inside like mad.
2/ Pre place figures on an old solid tray or something chair height outside.
3/ Grab can, run outside and do a light dusting from about 10-12inches (depending on wind).
4/ Run inside with models on the tray and let them dry indoors.
5/ Repeat process again and keep it light so no lacquer pools on model.
Also use Testors if you can but I actually think the GW stuff is also good. I have never had a problem with the GW purity can frosting though - it was an older can of Testors that I was too heavy with and it just appeared to react.
Once again, thanks for the advice. I'm pretty sure I wasn't too heavy handed with the spray-I usually manage alright, but maybe leaving the minis outside to dry in the damp atmosphere for 20 mins didn't help in retrospect. Most places I have looked at on the internet seem to be out of stock of Testors, but I have received the Vallejo varnish today from SnM Stuff (boy they are quick off the mark) so I'll give that a whirl in conjunction with the Citadel paint-on gloss varnish underneath. I'll try your technique with the spray as outlined above as well, though I can't promise to do all of the running about you describe! I'm far too old. Great to hear from you, and best of luck with the demo games at Salute. Best wishes.
ReplyDelete